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  •  PLEASE front page this (4.00 / 141)

    Please. I think I can fairly say it states the official position of DKos posters, most eloquently.

    God, I'm at a loss today to deal with this. My country sickens me. Makes me think we don't deserve saving at this point.

    by SusanG on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 02:49:40 PM PDT

    •  I agree with Susan. (4.00 / 17)

      Thanks for highlighting this.

      by Tom Kertes on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 03:20:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What POSSIBLE reason can there be... (3.96 / 28)

        for NOT Front Paging this?

        That's what I want to know.

        -9.63, -7.03 Rage, rage against the Lying of the Right

        by Maryscott OConnor on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 03:42:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed! (4.00 / 11)

        We need to do everything we can to make sure this gets some national attention immediately.  The infamous picture of the child in Vietnam only worked because people saw it.  The press may be scared, but it's time for them to fucking do their jobs or get the hell out of the way so that someone else can do it.

        Sorry, but ... I have been so upset since this first came up on Monday.  I went through shock and I went through crying.  And now I am left with rage.

        by rhapsaria on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 04:25:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Contact the media (none / 1)

          They may ignore us, but I had to try.  I contacted every news program on msnbc, cnn, abc, nbc, and cbs (no not fox, I'm an optimist not an idiot)  I asked if the Italian report was true or if Americans were being slandered by Italians.  Of course it's true, but I thought someone might jump at the defend America angle and end up broadcasting the truth.

          by ofao on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 09:56:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Why Do They Hate Us? (4.00 / 9)

        or maybe we should be asking:

        How Can We Still Love Ourselves So Much?

        When people condemn some of the more militant and radical stuff to come out of the 1960s they have usually forgotten what these sorts of images do to your faith in the essential decency of your country.  Why do people burn American flags? Because the people who burn the flesh off children WEAR American flags. And no I won't just pin the blame on the civilian leadership. The only way these crimes will stop is when the people at the BOTTOM of the chain of command decide to follow their consciences rather than following orders. The bastards at the top are largely beyond redemption. Does anyone here seriously think that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et. al. even have the moral apparatus to understand the evil they engage in? Assigning moral responsibility to them is an exercise in futility. They will only stop their rampage when they are forced to do so by the righteous anger of the rest of us. Of course the soldiers aren't the only ones responsible. We all are. But they are uniquely positioned to resist most effectively. Until they do so OUR responsibilities are to resist as effectively as we can in the hopes of awakening as many other consciences as possible.

        Sick of candidate diaries? Kasama!
        "Tell no lies. Claim no easy victories" -- Amilcar Cabral

        by Christopher Day on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:07:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Have you seen (none / 1)

          Have you seen a picture of a starving baby next to a cow bound for Burger King?

          Maybe we can all feel better by taking a nice drive down to the Gap to buy a nice child picked cotton sweater.

          Some people burn flags even when the USA is not in a big war. Of course it is more effective to come to Critical Mass.

          Berkeley Bart Friday 6pm 11/11/05.

          Last Friday SF embarcadero or in a city near you.

          love life, ride bikes

          by common terry on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 07:16:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Actually um.. no they are not... (4.00 / 2)

          Of course the soldiers aren't the only ones responsible. We all are. But they are uniquely positioned to resist most effectively.

          There's a little thing called the UCMJ and soldiers refusing orders are subject to it. In a war zone and during active combat, there are provisions to allow summary execution of soldiers who disobey combat orders.

          You, on the other hand, have no such restrictions. So the greater responsibility, as a citizen, is yours.

          Like it or not, these munitions are currently lawful to use. And before we all start parsing levels of tragedy and travesty, both of which this illegal war are, we should recognize that the babies killed by shrapnel are just as dead.

          The Multinationals and the Religious Right have identical goals: Profit from war, ignorance and fear...and the GOP is their Party.

          by dj angst on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 10:20:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Civilians have the greater responsiblity (none / 1)

            I agree with this.  Soldiers involved in combat operations have less access to information about what is going on than do civilians.  Soldiers are enveloped in the fog of war and typically do not have complete situational awareness even of the proximate battle actions in which they participate, much less the distal consequences of the orders they are asked to follow.

            War places the soldier in an extreme demand environment.  Those who have experienced such an environment can appreciate why soldiers must place a high degree of trust in their chain of command and in the rules of engagement communicated to them by that command.

            This is why, in a democratic nation, it is the civilians who have the ultimate responsibility for  the rules of engagement and the orders conveyed to soldiers by their chain of command.  

            Homeland: as in Bantustan, or as in home of the brave and land of the free?

            by homeland observer on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 01:31:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When supporting the troops means supporting (none / 0)

              ourselves. I agree with parent. It is civilians, and American civilians that gotta raise a wholly holy stink here. We gotta promise the assholes in charge that they'll see these pictures so many times that they'll begin to see them in their sleep.

              If we care about our cause, we better not be threatening war crimes trials on the low level troops on the ground... at least not with the facts we have now. War as one of many options is a crime in and of itself. Blaming the troops first, for these atrocities, is to miss the point entirely. It will be neighbor on neighbot around here, if you think you're going to threaten a war crime trial on your neighbor's kid for being a soldier.

              Focus on the top, where the indirective direction originates!

              by kazoo of the north on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 07:53:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Erm (4.00 / 2)

            Pardon me but aren't there circumstances where it is legitimate for a soldier to refuse to obey an order?

            Isn't that kind of blind obedience "I was only obeying orders" an opportunity to test Godwin's law?

            You say that a soldier refusing to follow a battlefield order could be subject to summary execution...isn't that what the fucking enemy that soldier is facing is planning on doing anyway?  

            So the grunts on the ground get a blank cheque to toss willy pete around where there are civilians?

            I thought America had the "smartest" military on the planet?  I thought you had smart bombs that could fly through a key-hole and up the noses and asses of their intended targets?

            That's the impression I got watching CNN during Gulf War I and II.

            If that's the case, why are you tossing indiscriminate incendiaries around like confetti?  

            Hunter's diary hits the nail on the head - melting civillians with incendiary weapons is wrong, and no amount of semantic wrangling about treaties, the nature of the weapons involved or anything else can detract from the fact that the USA's indiscriminate killing of civillians is wrong

            Halley Seven, United States Nil - You see, it can be done!

            by ian1973uk on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 03:29:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes (none / 0)

              Yes there are legitimate moral grounds, and the that soldier's commander has legitimate legal grounds to execute that soldier on the spot.

              It's a volunteer army, it's hard to claim conscientious objector when you signed up. And while you may consider the arguement that the soldier did not know they where signing up to do these deeds (if they did do them) as a valid reason, the army does not and it the army that basically owns that soldier.

              by xejn on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 05:08:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  LAWFULL is the key (none / 1)

              Every soldier has a duty to obey LAWFULL orders.  If the order is unlawfull he must NOT obey.  Even then, we recognize that in some cases, he might have to do that unlawfull act and report it later.  If refusing the order gets you killed there will be no one left to report that an unlawfull order was given and the cancer of a bad leader will remain.

              We can agree that dying from a horriable substance that consumes flesh is a bad thing but until it is unlawfull it is just one more way to die.  It is the dying and the need to kill that is horriable.  Dont pick at the margins on the "quality" of death, stop the killing.

              It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

              by ksuwildkat on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 05:54:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  In Hopes of Clarification (4.00 / 2)

                I posted this in another diary about the use of white phosphorus as an anti-personnel weapon.

                I'm a former officer in the US Army Chemical Corps.  My specialty was nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons.

                White phosphorus (WP or "Willy Pete") munitions are perfectly legal.  So are snow globes, bic pens, and ball peen hammers.  Using ANY of them to intentionally injure or kill an innocent civilian is illegal.  Even in combat.

                Yes, white phosphorus CAN be used as an anti-personnel weapon against an enemy combatant, just as we can use flame-throwers, napalm, flame fougasse systems, and fuel bombs.  However, WP is primarily used for illumination, as an agent in all types of ignition sources, and as an obscurant (smoke to hide movement, for example).  

                Use against unarmed civilians with indiscriminate targeting is illegal, despicable, and grounds for criminal prosecution.

                Hope this helps clear up some confusion.

                "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." -George S. Patton

                by vmibran on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 06:49:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yep. Very much true... (none / 0)

                  Now imagine yourself in combat in Fallujah.

                  These enemy tactics make the interaction with civilians very difficult:

                  1. Non-uniformed enemy. They don't wear ANY insignia.
                  2. Weapons Caches. They don't have a concept of a "personal" weapon like we do. They don't check rifles out from the armorer and they don't get an Article 15 for losing it. They grab a weapon from their cache, fire on US soldiers, run, drop it back in the cache and go have sandwich.
                  3. Actively use women and children as shields from which to fire weapons.

                  That being said, our soldiers are trained from day one: "You are supposed to do the difficult." I guess this scenario means that it's just MORE difficult than before.

                  But maybe we, in all our moral superiority, can cut them just a little slack.

                  The Multinationals and the Religious Right have identical goals: Profit from war, ignorance and fear...and the GOP is their Party.

                  by dj angst on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 01:07:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Nails and Heads (none / 0)

              [q]melting civillians with incendiary weapons is wrong,[/q]

              Is it any less wrong to kill a civilian with a bullet?

              [q]and no amount of semantic wrangling about treaties, the nature of the weapons involved or anything else can detract from the fact that the USA's indiscriminate killing of civillians is wrong[/q]

              Ah, there it is. Nail meets head.

              by Iconoclastodon on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 09:06:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Obeying orders... (none / 0)

              I had a friend who fought in Vietnam; unfortunately, he is dead now, so I can't ask him to be sure, but he told me that once he decided he could not invade and burn villages full of civilians and children, he requested other duty in which he would not have to carry a gun. He said he got it. Does anyone know if this is an option?

              "That story is not worth the paper it's rotten on."--Dorothy Parker

              by martyc35 on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 09:25:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sure it is. (none / 0)

                But you can bet that request was made in the rear, off the line, so to speak. Not in the middle of a battle.

                The Multinationals and the Religious Right have identical goals: Profit from war, ignorance and fear...and the GOP is their Party.

                by dj angst on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 12:53:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Bursting Bubbles!!! (none / 0)

            They are responsible and my husband refused to kill looters in Fallujah when they first went in and told his commanders that it was an illegal order to kill looters and he told all of the soldiers with him it was an illegal order and he didn't have to kill any looters and the I believe he gave reason for the other soldiers to maybe not do it too!  I just saw him this morning at breakfast in uniform still living!  Of course he is an old soldier and younger soldiers are probably easier to intimidate but they are still responsible for obeying an illegal order!

            "People die. Strategies fail. Blame is laid. And we, as a nation, are made to look like assholes." - Brandon Friedman

            by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 06:47:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Can we all PLEASE PLEASE (4.00 / 15)

      make a collective effort to e-mail CNN to cover this story???  Why has nobody suggested a mass e-mailing campaign yet?  If even ONE THIRD of dailykos readers all e-mailed CNN it might FORCE their attention to this story.

      Please people, do YOUR part.  We all need to get this on television in America.  Just go to the websites of these media outlets and just hit 'contact us'.... write a few lines about this story, it is the LEAST we can do...

      "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

      by hopefulcanadian on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 03:32:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  CNN is terrified of this shit (4.00 / 11)

        they have cheerleaded the war since Day one.

        They are, in my opinion, worse than Faux news in their sponsorship of this administration, because they are more subtle and sneaky about it.

        Wolf Blitzer should be forced to be buried in a coffin with these kids.  

        "Letting a Republican govern is like letting a pedophile babysit"

        by Nordic on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 03:35:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But surely that (4.00 / 10)

          shouldn't stop us from TRYING???

          We can at least WRITE the e-mails.... it doesn't take much, NOTHING will be achieved if we do NOTHING....

          again, please, do your part... just write a couple lines to CNN today.  Consider it your contribution to the fight to END this.  My moral conscience wouldn't have let me rest had I not written.... we MUST try.

          "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

          by hopefulcanadian on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 03:40:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, please try (4.00 / 6)

            I don't mean to be negative, but I've dealt with CNN over and over.   I used to trade e-mails with Eason Jordan, who was let go as their news chief for being too "anti-Bush".  And believe me, he was not anti-bush.  

            I would like to see a class action lawsuit against CNN for malpractice and false advertising.   If there are any lawyers out there with enough balls to give it a shot.

            But yes, writing them certainly cannot hurt the cause.   It can only help.  

            "Letting a Republican govern is like letting a pedophile babysit"

            by Nordic on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 03:50:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Haven't you heard.... (none / 0)

              CNN is viciously anti-Bush. So is the media. I know because I read it on little green you-know-whats.

              Just a reminder that...well, I don't know. Personally, I never saw a reporter who more of an out-and-out cheerleader for the initial invasion of Irag of than Dan Rather. (He also tearfully called for it not long after 9/11 on the David Letterman Show.)

              But now it's an established fat that Dan is somewhere to the left of Noam Chomsky.

              Forward to Yesterday -- Reactionary aesthetics and liberal politics (in that order)

              by LABobsterofAnaheim on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:08:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "Dan Rather Got His Necklace" (none / 1)

                Dan Rather attempted to explain the degree of pressure put upon them all by the White House. I think Dan's going along in the early days of the war, maybe out of fear, weighed on him. He did do the ANG story and what he feared did, of course, come to pass for him, and for his producer and others associated with the story.

                It seems patently unfair to criticize a man who did find the courage to come out against this regime even though he surely knew it would be the end of his career.  For perspective:

                Dan Rather Got His Necklace
                By: Mary Lyon

                Mary Mapes has just released her book on the ANG fiasco:

                Truth and Duty: The Press, the President, and the Privilege of Power

                Since these Republican insects ruined her career too, perhaps it would be a good idea for us all to give her some support by buying (and reading) her book.

                (¯`*._(¯`*._(-IMPEACH-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯) It's not too late!

                by nehark on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 06:13:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  he was rich, he had nothing to lose (none / 0)

                  Rather was already at the end of his career and was a wealthy man.  He had absolutely nothing to lose by telling the truth and being uncowardly.

                  "Letting a Republican govern is like letting a pedophile babysit"

                  by Nordic on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 07:57:39 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hell of a way... (none / 0)

                    ...to end a long, distinguished career, wouldn't you say? I know of a lot of retired heros though, who retired prematurly since bush took office. Rather is one of the more well known of that large group.

                    I do think the lies and B.S. came upon them pretty fast. 9/11 was handled so masterfully by the bush guild, nearly everyone in the country was behind bush during the first few weeks after the tragedy. No body was into parsing what the Preznit was actually saying for a long time after that. I do wish Rather and others who know better had spoken out sooner.

                    (¯`*._(¯`*._(-IMPEACH-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯) It's not too late!

                    by nehark on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 08:10:09 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Suing for false advertising (none / 0)

              is a pipe dream of mine, as well.  I have never found a working legal definition of "news" -- although millions of Americans have screamed at one time or another "That isn't news!".

              I do know that through the 1960s, TV listings in your hometown newspaper would read something like this:

              10:00 pm -- News
              10:15 pm -- Weather
              10:20 pm -- Sports
              10:25 pm -- Commentary
              10:30 pm -- The Tonight Show

              I have to think there was an FCC-related reason for this.  Maybe that's a place to start.

              Show of hands... who would join Kucinich's effort to impeach VP Cheney?

              by Mogolori on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:22:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I'm on it. (4.00 / 4)

            Got all the major networks in my address book.  

            I do not know what weapons World War III will be fought with. World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -- Albert Einstein

            by elveta on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:59:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you... (none / 0)

              so much.  I feel that so many times Elveta, we determine our OWN level of 'helplessness'....

              As long as we do SOMETHING, we're at least contributing to the solution, vs. the problem.  Non-action, is a huge injustice as well.  I keep thinking of the Martin Luther King Jr. quote:

              "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
              Martin Luther King, Jr.

              "Be the change that you want to see in the world."- Gandhi

              by hopefulcanadian on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 06:29:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  major ntwks' addresses (none / 0)

              Hey, Elveta--Send those addresses along, if you're able.  I get them then lose them...guano on me.  This entire story is making my head buzz, even more than usual.  Thanks in advance.

              These are despicable people, and they do despicable things. Mario Cuomo

              by sally lambert on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 06:48:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  AND front page it, damn it (4.00 / 13)

        So it gets on RSS feeds in every newsroom in America ... they all have DKos on feeds.

        by SusanG on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 03:36:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Tried to call for action (4.00 / 2)

      I posted a diary yesterday asking for concrete action, SusanG; I was heartsick and disgusted at the photos I saw as well as our desultory discussion without a follow-up plan.

      Got virtually nothing in the way of traction on my call for action.

      I refuse to be complicit in these crimes against humanity.  I am taking action.

      WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF YOU?

      by Rayne on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 04:03:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think we should try to shut the plant down (4.00 / 16)

        They produce this stuff in one place.  Pine Bluffs, Arkansas.  If we can get 10,000 people there, we can ensure a hell of a snarl, and media coverage.

        "I've waited all my life for a Republican Barack Obama. Now he shows up and he's a Democrat." - Frank Luntz

        by The Termite on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 04:08:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am up for it (none / 0)

          I have little free time, but am avail. after december finals. I am willing to go down there and do civil disobedience. I kno wthere is an action at Fort Benning coming up - don't know when, but perhaps it could ride piggy back?
          This is so utterly sick.

          "Junkies find veins in their toes when the ones in their arms and legs collapse." - Al Gore

          by parryander on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 04:30:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Start NOW (4.00 / 6)

            While protest rally is only nebulous -- you and the Termite being the first two in the thread to discuss a rally, after all -- there are other things we can do NOW.

            I've already done as I suggested in my diary yesterday; I've contacted the Senate Armed Forces Committee and demanded investigations, audits and revisiting Protocol III of the 1980 Convention on Certain Chemical Weapons.

            I'm posting bulletins asking citizens to get engaged.

            I've contacted my Senator about this.

            Anybody else got suggestions?

            by Rayne on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 04:54:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Excellent (none / 0)

              I will do the same.

              "I've waited all my life for a Republican Barack Obama. Now he shows up and he's a Democrat." - Frank Luntz

              by The Termite on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 04:57:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  What else? (none / 0)

              I've contacted the major media outlets and my congressmen, but that doesn't seem like enough, so I'm also flyering my campus and the local town.  Also, a friend and I are going to send holiday cards with these pictures attached to as many Senators as we can.

              Any other ideas?  I'm anxious to do more.

              "It is not your right to feel powerless. Better people than you were powerless." ~ Carolyn Forche, "Return"

              by Shauna on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 06:00:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Think we need to call up the Indie 500 (none / 0)

                We had a push earlier this year of Kossacks who blogged, called the Indie 500.

                We need to enlist every blogger in the Kossack community to post a call to action on WP, to post a demand for attention by their Senators and by the Senated Armed Forces Committee.  We could start with the Indie 500.

                Shout out to you Indie 500 folk -- ready to saddle up again?

                by Rayne on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 06:07:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Plot thickens--or does it just swirl around? (none / 0)

          Ex-FEMA director Joe Allbaugh, predecessor to Michael "I am a fashion god" Brown, is a paid lobbyist for The Shaw Group, which is the parent complany to Shaw Environmental, which has contracted with Teledyne Technologies.

          lapin yesterday on another thread had this link to an October press release regarding the Teledyne award. linked text

          nb The contract to Teledyne is for $10mil. Shaw Environmental was awarded $100mil from FEMA for Gulf Coast reconstruction.

          This signature line confers blanket acknowledgment and correction of any tpyo's that may or may not exist in the above text.

          by oregon blue on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:31:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Shut down the companies that profit (none / 0)


          The WP munitions plant at Pine Bluffs is currently being upgraded. (I'm not sure but it may have burned recently in an accident that mildly affected a few individuals in the surrounding area).

          The work will be done by Teledyne Brown Engineering, Inc., under contract The Shaw Group Inc.

          I believe the Shaw Group was on the 2004 list of Forbes Most Admired Companies. Contact Forbes and tell them to make sure the company is not included in any future lists.

          by ChemGeek on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:51:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  If you're intested in visiting (none / 0)

          consider this your travel brochure.
          Happy camping!

          by ChemGeek on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:58:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Amazing (none / 0)

            I had missed this particular page on the website until you pointed it out, but check this out:

            The arsenal is capable of producing munitions designed to provide friendly forces the capability to stop, confuse, disorient or momentarily deter a potential threat with out the use of deadly force

            And that's it.  It's described by its manufacturer as non-lethal.  And yet its use is clearly not in line with that description.

            "I've waited all my life for a Republican Barack Obama. Now he shows up and he's a Democrat." - Frank Luntz

            by The Termite on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 08:29:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Excellent Excellent idea (none / 0)

          Closing this plant down will draw coverage to the atrocity. And to our shame. It's just horrible.  A few plant closing, protesting folks getting arrested might push this into the headlines.

          Really, this is a very good idea. Do you have any details about the plant?

          by kosblt on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 08:19:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Let's wear boxes covered with these pictures (none / 0)

          You want to interview me on TV? Well, you gotta show the pictures. If any reps of a war machine shutdown machine are going to be interviewed on TV, showing these pictures, front and center, needs to be the price of the interview. If you can't show them, Mr. Reporter, I don't talk to you, as you are really not interested...

          Nowadays, we have large format inkjet printers for the job.

          by kazoo of the north on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 08:29:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Somewhere, Jonathan Swift Is Nodding His Head (4.00 / 4)

      In admiration, and saying "FRONT PAGE THIS!!!!!

      Brilliant writing.  Try to get this published.

      "L'enfer, c'est les autres." - Jean Paul Sartre, Huis Clos

      "L'enfer, c'est le GOP!" - JJB, from an idea by oratorio

      by JJB on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 04:28:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I May Not Deserve Saving (4.00 / 3)

      But my two year old son does, and to have his country of birth saved for him. I'm sure you can find a similar proxy to rally your "worth saving" sentiments around.

      by NewDirection on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:22:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just a passing feeling of despair (4.00 / 3)

        I know this country and its people are worth saving.

        In fact, I'm the mother myself of four -- one of them a male, age 19, otherwise known as prime cannon  fodder.

        My first fear is that he's drafted and dies or is maimed himself. Close on the heels of that is my nightmare in which he is forced to perpetuate this kind of horror on others. How are our soldiers going to live with themselves for the rest of their lives? How are we warping these young men and women?

        by SusanG on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 05:41:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I agree fully Susan (none / 0)

      I fully agree with you. This should make any American sick of the countries leadership. What was once the beacon of human rights is now the same as the Saddam Regime.

      Jamie
      http://intoxination.blogspot.com

      by hovercrafter on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 06:30:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Up close and personal (none / 0)

      While I was in Corps I was stationed out of Camp Pendleton with an Artillary unit there. I must have shot thousands of Wille P ( not Willie Pete ). It is an extreamly useful weapon when used on open or dug in forces. I don't think it was ever designed to be used in cities. The bad thing about WP is that it reacts to Oxygen. If you accidently kick it up again, it starts to reburn. Clean up is almost impossible. If it contacts human skin you have to either dig it out with a knife or turn the burn upside down so it burns its way out. It's worthless as an Illum shell, we have rounds just for that with over 1 million candle-power. It does make a great smoke screen. We also have non-leathal smoke rounds.

      by jlchavis0844 on Thu Nov 10, 2005 at 06:30:04 AM PDT

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